Quarterly Grades
20 games into the season, and it's time to hand out the B&O first quarter grades. The Isles are currently 12-8 and have much to be proud of after most predicted the Isles to be near or around the bottom of the NHL after many core players bolted last summer. After losing Ryan Smyth, Jason Blake, Victor Kozlov, & Tom Poti, Garth Snow revamped the roster wit the additions of new Blood like Bill Guerin, Mike Comrie, Josef Vasicek, & Andy Sutton, the Isles under coach Ted Nolan are surprising the league once again.
Mike Comrie -- Comrie started his Isles career with a bang, notching 2 goals in each of the Isles first two games of the year. Although a gifted playmaker, fans finally thought the Isles had landed that game breaking player who could score the big goal late in a game. So far, Comrie has put up respectable numbers for a #1 center with 7 goals and 11 assists, good for 18 points. However, Comrie's plus/minus of -8 is rather alarming, considering how much ice time he gets (almost 20 minutes a game). Comrie is prone to defensive lapses and often turns over the puck when he should be looking to shoot. He seems to have lost his confidence in his shot, as we see night in and night out a player who dishes the puck to a teammate even though he is in the best shooting lane. He only has 2 goals in the Isles last 10 games. In addition, he has amassed 24 penalty minutes thus far, which is too much for a player as quick as Comrie; he needs to learn to rely on his speed and not his stick while back checking.
B&O gives Mike Comrie a B-.
Ruslan Fedotenko -- Tank has shown he can score the big goal and he certainly has a nose for the net. He is not afraid to get involved in the rough stuff either, and he can be seen on most nights battling in the corner for loose pucks. However, Tank has never been a first line winger, and his inconsistent numbers are not surprising. Thus far, Tank has 6 goals and 7 assists, which are respectable 2nd line numbers. But also with only 2 goals in the Isles' last 10 games, Tank highlights the Isles' need for a true number one winger.
B&O gives Ruslan Fedotenko a B.
Miroslav Satan -- Miro had a tremendous steak this season in which he scored the game winning goal in three straight games. That seemed to sprinkle memory dust on Isles fans regarding Miro's first 10 games which he only scored 1 goal. However, Miro has played a huge part on a line with Josef Vasicek to give the Isles a better than average second scoring line. Further, Miro leads the isles with a plus/minus of +6, while taking only 3 penalties so far. I don't think Miro is quite the 35-40 goal scorer he once was, but if he can notch a clutch goal every now and then, while keeping the opponents off the score sheet more times than none, then I'm pretty comfortable with Miro as the second line winger.
B&O gives Miroslav Satan a B+.
Bill Guerin -- What Bill Guerin has not done on the score sheet, he has definitely done off of it. Although Guerin has only 5 goals and 6 assists on the season (and NO POINTS IN HIS LAST 9 GAMES) he has provided the Isles with the leadership and stability the Isles have lacked in perhaps 15 years. Alex Yashin is a distant memory and Guerin has this team ready to go on a nightly basis. Although we thought we were getting a perennial 30 goal scorer, instead we got a player who has stabilized the franchise, with the ability to chip in every now and then.
B&O gives Bill Guerin a B.
Josef Vasicek -- For under a million dollars per year, the Isles found their leading goal scorer after 20 games. Vasicek is also a +4 on the season, and has one of the highest shooting percentages in the entire NHL. With more power play time, Vasicek's numbers should soar. The question still remains however will Ted Nolan finally realize that this guy belongs out there on the PP over Mike Silinger?
B&O gives Josef Vasicek an A-.
Chris Campoli -- Campoli has made me eat my words, and I couldn't be happier that he has done just that. After I predicted another terrible season for Camps, he came out flying, racking up 11 points so far. He has become much more adept at the physical game an NHL defenseman needs to embody. Camps and D partner Bruno Gervais have established themselves as very reliable 3-4 defenseman. While Campoli does possess strong offensive skills, Nolan should leave the PP duty to MAB and Berard.
B&O gives Chris Campoli a B+.
Mike Silinger -- On paper, Silinger is pretty much doing his job: 3 goals, 5 assists, a -1 rating, and a better than average faceoff percentage. However, anyone who has watched Mike play this year, knows the Isles made a mistake when they signed him to a 3 year deal. His decision making is slow, his reaction time even slower, and his feet even slower than that. I wouldn't have as much of a problem with Silinger if I weren't forced to watch him screw up the PP on a nightly basis.
B&O gives Mike Silinger a C-.
Trent Hunter -- It feels like deja vu, the yearly wait for Trent Hunter to get his game going. I've never been a big Trent Hunter fan, and this season surely hasn't changed my perspective. For a guy who gets as much PP time as Trent and as many first line minutes, he needs to have more than 4 goals, especially with the shot that he has. Trent has taken 64 shots, so it's not like he's not getting it off--it's just that he isn't scoring. He is BY FAR the slowest player on the Isles, and quite possibly the league. He is a -6 on the year, which is strange for a strong defensive player. Although a somewhat effective penalty killer, Trent needs to turn up the offense if he wants to prove he's worth more than the Isles are paying him this year. Otherwise, I'd let him walk. (Although no other team would give him the PP and first line time he gets on the Isles and I have a hard time imagining him topping 10 goals on another team).
B&O gives Trent Hunter a C.
Richard Park -- Richard Park won fans over completely by scoring two goals in the last and most important game of the season last year against the Devils. This season, Park has done everything right. He has successfully filled in on each of the Isles' second, third, and fourth lines. He has put up similar offensive numbers to that of Silinger and Hunter it almost half the ice time. He is one of four Islanders who have a plus rating so far.
B&O gives Richard Park a B+.
Bruno Gervais -- Bruno has certainly come into his own and is undoubtedly a reliable defensive defenseman, even with his small frame. He battles hard and is rarely caught out of position or trapped in the offensive zone. He has an even +/- rating so far, and his consistent solid play has him close to untouchable status on the Isles roster.
B&O gives Bruno Gervais an A-.
Marc-Andre Bergeron -- In only 12 games MAB has put up 6 points, which is disappointing after he had almost a point per game is 23 games as an Islander last year. MAB has often been the scapegoat of the Isles struggles, as he has been benched for 3 games, then 5 games after making poor decisions with the puck during Isles losses. However, the Isles are indeed 8-4 with MAB in the lineup and 4-4 without him. In last night's game against Boston, Nolan finally got it right by dressing 7 defenseman and sitting Tim Jackman and his meaningless 3 minutes of ice time. Dressing 7 defenseman keeps everyone fresh and is tremendous insurance in case of an injury. While MAB is hardly a reliable defensive defenseman, he rarely makes mistakes in the defensive zone, and has ZERO penalty minutes this season. To me, it's one of those 'you can't put your finger on it, but you know you want him in there' things.
B&O gives Marc-Andre Bergeron a B.
Sean Bergenheim -- Bergie has fit in nicely on the Isles' second line, although the Isles probably need a winger who could contribute more offensively than Bergie and his 1 goal so far. If Tambellini isn't ready for this role, I strongly believe Ben Walter could handle this position. Although a natural center, BW has shown himself to be a smart two-way player and I do not believe he would have any trouble adjusting. Bergie is best suited as a 3rd line checking winger.
B&O gives Sean Bergenheim a B-.
Bryan Berard -- We will always love Berard in some way because he came into the NHL as an Islander and won the Calder Trophy in his rookie campaign. Berard is a more than capable PP quarterback, but he does miss the net too often and needs to limit his mistakes in the Isles' defensive zone. I would enjoy both Berard and MAB more if they were used as a platoon as the 6th defenseman while sharing PP time.
B&O gives Bryan Berard a B-.
Andy Sutton -- Sutton can hand out some pretty devastating hits, but he really is nothing more than a 5-6 defenseman. He eats quality minutes, and if he can do that without making any costly errors, than I'm all for keeping him around.
B&O gives Andy Sutton a B.
Brendan Witt -- Is there any defenseman you'd rather have out there against an elite NHL player? Witt has been able to neutralize some extraordinary talents this year--just ask Jaromir Jagr. He is a +2 on the year, and is the backbone and the heart of the franchise. I would sign Witt to a 2-3 year extension ASAP.
B&O gives Brendan Witt an A.
Radek Martinek -- Radek hasn't put up those tremendous +/- numbers as he did last season, but that should not be interpreted to discredit his strong defensive play. He breaks up 2-on-1s, blocks shots, and could probably quarterback the PP if he were asked to. The Isles have given up more than 2 goals only 3 times in the last 10 games, and much of that has to do with the strong play of Martinek and Witt.
B&O gives Radek Martinek an A-.
Chris Simon -- good role player, good teammate, not so good hockey player. He's older and slower than ever, and should be limited to 4th line or emergency PP duty. With an even +/- he certainly hasn't hurt the Isles this year.
B&O gives Chris Simon a B.
Andy Hilbert -- Finally Andy got his goal and finally we can adjust his projected goal totals without simply saying ZERO! Hilbert is NOT the problem on this team, although he is FAR from the solution. He is a very strong penalty killer and a smart two-way player. Although a player who sees almost 15 of ice time per night definitely should have more than 1 goal, Andy Hilbert contributes to the Isles every night by killing penalties, which is more than I could say about Chris Simon, Tim Jackman, or Aaron Johnson, who all had brief stints with the club this season. I'm on board the Hilbert train, LET'S GO ANDY!!!!
B&O gives Andy Hilbert a B-. (C+ before last night).
Wade Dubielewicz -- Not given much action, Dubie proved useful by playing steady and allowing the Isles to come back against Pittsburgh during Al Arbour night. Although his numbers are alarming (5.08 GAA & .836 save %), we all know Dubie is capable of stealing a win. And with DP on pace to play around 75 games, Dubie should be able to provide a steady hand however rarely he is needed.
B&O gives Wade Dubielewicz a C+.
Rick DiPietro -- The face of the franchise has established himself as a top-5 goaltender. If you were going to trade DP straight up for another netminder, who would you pull the trigger for? Lundqvist, of course, Luongo, you bet. Brodeur? Not at his age. Kiprusoff? Having a terrible year? At 26 years of age and $4.5 million for the next 14 years, you're not going to get much more bang for your buck. DP steals games--he makes saves that no other goaltender can make and he disrupts the opponents' forecheck with his uncanny ability to play the puck. Personally, I think the trapezoid rule behind the net has a lot to do with DP's success; it has forced him to remain in the net on plays he more than likely might turn the puck over. He has given up a few softies this year, and he did get shellacked against Carolina, but the Isles haven't had this kind of stellar consistent goaltending in a long long time.
B&O gives Rick DiPietro an A-.
SUMMARY: The Isles are off to a good start in a long season. The main problem has been the Isles inability to score goals on a nightly basis. Surprisingly, the Isles have NOT scored more than 2 goals for the past 8 games in a row!. And somehow the isles are 4-4 over that span. Snow should be on the lookout for offensive help, even if it costs the Isles more draft picks and prospects. I am ready to part with Tambellini and a first rounder if it meant the Isles could land someone significant. But all in all, a solid beginning to the 2007-2008 New York Islanders season.
Posts
56 comments:
Some of the criticism many of us bloggers provide after losses has less to do with being complaining annoying pessimistic fans, and more to do with the idea that by publicly posting our input, there is a chance the Isles management might get the message faster than had we not been actively discussing these games.
Jeff and I have been magaging the hits received on B&O, and we are constanly among the top few hundred Blogs hosted on blogger.com. We have a tremendous following, in addition to some very intelligent and wise hockey analysts who comment on a regular basis.
I drop the link on Newsday, hockey buzz, ESPN, etc. every now and then and I hope you all forward our link to as many Isles fans as you can. B&O is the place to turn for quality New York Islanders discussion.
Looking forward to your comments on the first quarter grades.
No grade for the coach?
Ted Nolan certainly does have a knack for getting the most out of players that other teams discarded or gave up on. He should also take the credit for a winning record because he would have to take the blame for a losing one.
Ted is somewhat of an enigma to me. He is extremely slow to recognize that loyalty and hard work do not always equal success. His refusal to let go, when players do not perform up to standard is just plain foolishness.
Loyalty to certain players at the expense of the team is criminal. The team should always come first. There have been numerous examples posted here of Ted's inability to cut the cord, so there is no sense rehashing old wounds. Ted needs to become more decisive and quicker to make changes when he should.
Ted also needs to build some trust and rapport with the younger players. So far he has shown that he will not give them significant minutes and by that that, he has no confidence in them.
This is and old team that is desperately in need of an infusion of youth, and at some point in the season, he is going to have to come to grips with that.
If Nolan would get over his blind loyalty to those who don't deserve it, (see Jackman, Johnson, Hilbert and Simon) he would rank as one of the better coaches in the NHL. So far, he has done a better than average job. I would rate him a B+.
As for the rest of the rankings, I pretty much agree, except for Hilbert and Simon. This team already has Park as a third or fourth line player and penalty killer. It cannot afford to carry
Hilbert and Simon all season and get nothing from them. You can keep Simon around for the physical games, but Hilbert or Bates have to go. This team has way too many of the same players.....Bill
Bill,
I agree, especially about Nolan. He has done a tremendous job motivating these guys, but you are 100% right in that he needs to do what's best for the team and NOT what's best for the individual. He pretty much said he was doing just that when he claimed he would start Aaron Johnson at forward b/c he liked him and he was working hard at practice. That's not enough of a reason to have a bulky defensive defenseman playing wing for 4 straight games. Nolan's loyaly is as you said blind.
I don't mind Simon b/c he has a decent hockey sense and rarely hurts the team by taking bad penalties or turning over the puck.
How about ranking the former Isles?
Jason Blake has ONE more goal than Andy Hilbert!!! And Jason Blake is playing on the Leaf's first line. Don't miss him. C-.
Tom Poti has no goals and has a minus rating. C+
Victor Kozlov has 3 goals and 11 assists. B
Ryan Smyth has 6 goals and 8 assists and a +/- of -8!! C+
I'd say the Isles made out well allowing these guys to walk.
To somewhat continue and clear the air from the previous discussion between Geoff, Bill and NYISLES - this board was made for this exact reason. It is a place where we can come and discuss our beloved Isles. While we may not all agree on issues, it is here that we get to express our view points and share them with others who share the same love for the Isles.
Sorry I didn't get to post this sooner but I was traveling this past weekend(which was a killer) but here are some game notes from the Isles win over the 2nd game of the home and home vs. the Bruins.
The NVMC was packed and was it great to be a part of that atmosphere. If only every game could be like that. From before the tipoff, you could feel the buzz in the building and it was going strong until they got that on their 1st shot of the game. I knew we would pull this one out when after giving up that shaky goal, the team continued its dominant play in the Bruins end. Once Hilbert fired that laser for his 1st of the game(where has that shot been the whole season so far), it seemed like a collective burden was taken off the shoulders of the whole team. His goal brought the fans back into it.
Don't know if they showed or talked about this on the tv broadcast but after Park scored the game winner in the 3rd a group behind the visitors goal in the 100's started a wave that took over the coliseum for a good 10 minutes. While waves may seem corny and cheesy to some, once the whole place got going it seemed like the coliseum was rocking again. It has been great to see this team rebound so strongly in terms of attendance. I remember when if we had 8,000 for a game we were considering it a good night. I am extremely happy those days are over.
The biggest difference I am seeing between this years team and last years is the number of penalties(and there level of idiocy) has dropped dramatically. 2 of the 3 penalties (Satan's and Hunter's) were just horrible calls against the Isles.
While it was great to see Hilbert finally get on the board, I hope Nolan will still sit him in favor of Bates for tonights game vs. Dallas(we should all agree the goalie should not have more points then your 3rd line winger - DP - 0g2a to Hilberts 1g,0a). This would give us the lineup of:
Simon-Comrie-Guerin
Tank-Vasicek-Satan
Bates-Sillinger-Hunter
Rotating Wing-Park-Bergs
Witt-Marty
Sutton-Berard
Campoli-Gervais
MAB
By dressing the 7 dmen it allows us to get the best out of both MAB and Berard. With the limited time on the ice both players play their hardest at all times and gives them less opportunities to mess things up and have defensives lapses which by now we all know they are capable of.
Also the moving of Simon to the line with Comrie and Guerin seemed to work well as they were able to continue to cycle the puck. It was one of the best games for both Comrie and Guerin in a while even though both failed to hit the scoresheet. As well I enjoyed watching Park and Bergs play together (although in limited ice time) as both players used their speed to fly around defenders and create chances just about everytime we are out on the ice.
Where all the people crying that we "let" Blake, Kozlov, Poti and Smyth walk? I think as time goes on we are going to agree that not having those players here were for the better.
This is a tough week ahead if we go .500 during this stretch of games(1-1-1) I would be very happy. As well I would like to see Doobie see some game action as well. DP will be playing about 70 games this season so Doobie is bound for a start sometime soon. If not tonight look for him to play against ATL, BOS or FLA.
Keys to tonights game: stay out of the box and crash the net and get as many shots on net as possible (like last game)
Personally I would rather see the Isles keep Hilbert and sit Silinger, and have Bates as the 3rd line center.
There is no way that one point can warrant Andy Hilbert a B- or anything close to that. The only thing positive he has done to this point has been on the PK. He has more PK minutes than most other players, but he has more minutes a night even strength than a man down. In my opinion he should have two different grades. For the PK an B+, for everything else an F.
But if I gave Hilbert any lower then there wouldn't be grades low enough to encompass the efforts given so far by Silinger and Hunter. He also caught me after a solid game which probably distorted my grades. And unlike Nolan, I'm allowed to play favorites.
What do you guys think about Brian Burke's attempt to ram through a salary cap exemption for traded players. In simple language, Team A can trade a player to Team B and still pay part of his salary. This would NOT count against the salary cap.
Personally, I think this is just another ploy to have the rich get richer. The big market teams who have painted themselves into a salary cap corner would benefit, while the smaler market teams would end up gaining nothing.
Burke's plan would exmempt up to 2 million per player up to a maximum of 4 million. All this does is add an additional 4 million to the salary cap for the teams that can easily afford it.
I think this stinks. Play the hand you dealt yourself, Mr. Burke, and stop trying to change the rules to suit your situation.
Only the Flyers, Rangers, Leafs and a few others would gain from this proposal. Does anyone think that this would help the Colombus Blue Jackets or Nashville Preds?
The NHL has done wonders to level the playing field. Leave it alone.....Bill
What do you guys think about Brian Burke's attempt to ram through a salary cap exemption for traded players. In simple language, Team A can trade a player to Team B and still pay part of his salary. This would NOT count against the salary cap.
Personally, I think this is just another ploy to have the rich get richer. The big market teams who have painted themselves into a salary cap corner would benefit, while the smaler market teams would end up gaining nothing.
Burke's plan would exmempt up to 2 million per player up to a maximum of 4 million. All this does is add an additional 4 million to the salary cap for the teams that can easily afford it.
I think this stinks. Play the hand you dealt yourself, Mr. Burke, and stop trying to change the rules to suit your situation.
Only the Flyers, Rangers, Leafs and a few others would gain from this proposal. Does anyone think that this would help the Colombus Blue Jackets or Nashville Preds?
The NHL has done wonders to level the playing field. Leave it alone.....Bill
Hey guys, not sure what happened again. I wrote a post last night with my grades (most in line with those here), and agreeing with Bill's grade for Nolan. BUT, once again, it didn't get through. I also wanted to make it clear to everyone I meant no offense to this blog with our previous discussion. I came here cause Newsday sucked over the summer, and stayed here cause there are some good comments and people here. Thats the short version of what I had originally written...
Is it official for Bates tonight? I can't find anything...
I'm interested in seeing how they come out tonight. I think after Hilbert scored, the team began playing differently...and better. If they're able to come out tonight with the same speed, intensity, and poise, I'll be real happy.
Lets go Islanders!
Another interesting fact: Boston has not won at NVMC since 2001.
I would love to see Bates in some game action but I doubt will we see him tonight as Nolan has shown us that if we have won he doesn't like to change the roster even though changes should be made.
No Bates which we all knew was coming. Silinger was out there on the Isles' first PP which is revolting.
Nyisles I was unaware of any problems regarding posting. I'll do my best to resolve the issue ASAP.
I'm liking the 7 D-men...Nolan should stick with this lineup.
Great job by Bergeron to get the puck to the net.
Sillinger should not be playing 4 on 4.
shink you read my mind...
HOW DO YOU HAVE SILINGER AND HUNTER OUT THERE TOGETHER DURING 4 on 4 OVERTIME???
Nolan get a clue!!!!
They are two of the slowest players in the entire league. And that's who we start the game with? Nolan's hockey sense is undoubtedly no where near where it needs to be.
Bill what you think of that?
And You both read mine... once again another example of Nolans brilliant coaching....Sillinger and Hunter on the 4-4 in OT.Makes a lot of sense to play too of your slowest players together??????? Sillinger and Hunter against Modano …. Great job once again Ted…good work giving away a point.
I posted that before they even scored too. That made no sense on so many levels. I can understand sending Hunter, but maybe with Vasicek or Park or Tank or even Hilbert, not with Sillinger.
At least we got a point out of this game.
What is almost as shocking as Nolan line choices for OT are the horrible call the officials continue to make against the Islanders. The worst of many this year was Park's "penalty" at the end of the second period. In every way that was a great clean defensive play Park made and the official should realize that was not tripping.
Not sure if any of you saw this...
http://tsn.ca/blogs/?id=223675
Look's like the Leaf's are going to copy our model of the committee system. Let's just hope the media doesn't forget that it was the Islanders who were the first team to install this management system and have some solid NHL names on the committee including Snow, Trottier and Morrow.
Well, this may shock you guys, but I have to defend Ted on his using Sillinger and Hunter. My take is that he went with Sillinger to win the face off and get the puck deep in the Stars zone. He had been matching the Sillinger line against Modano all night and I think that it made sense to contiue along that path. He also had his two best Dmen out there to support them.
I think Ted was just hoping to keep Modano at bay for 45- 60 seconds and then counter with Vasichek and Satan and go for the win.
I really can't fault him for this because it makes hockey sense. Sometimes thing just don't work out the way you planned them. Modano has over 500 goals, so it's not like you got beat by a scrub.
Of more concern to me is the lack of scoring by the top six forwards.
Let's face it. Parks goal was a gift by bonehead Turco.
Satan's goal was a perfectly executed PP. And it was all due to MAB keeping the puck in and then hitting the net. If Nolan ever needed to be convinced about using MAB on the PP he should just watch the replay of that goal.
But once again there was nothing from the top two lines at even strength. This has to be a huge concern at this point in the season.
I read today that Nolan doesn't like dressing 7 Dmen. What does it take for this guy to wake up?
Has anyone else read that Snow is working on getting Martin St. Louis from Tampa? I think that this is a possibility due to Tampa salary cap restraints. They certainly would not be looking to get salary back, so it would take some young players who are signed (Campoli) and some prospects (Tambellini, Okposo?) and a pick.
I would happily trade Campoli and Okposo and a pick for St. Louis.
He is just the kind of sparkplug we need to get the offense going and he is signed for 4 more years at a reasonable price.
This trade makes a lot of sense for both sides and I could see it happening. Tampa would open up some cap space and improve their D and get a top prospect in Okposo. We would get what we desperatly need....a proven scorer....Bill
At least we got a point out of that game.
What shocks me as much as Nolan's poor coaching line choices in the OT is the lack of respect we still see from the officials, this has to end. Example 1A is Park's penalty given to him in the second period. That was a great defensive move to lift the stick of the defender and the replay clearly shows that.
Are any of you guys AZS or Steady or Candyman over on Logans site?
I rarely use my former alias Candyman, but I do drop by Newsday once every few weeks to drop the link to our blog.
The Newsday blog is a waste of space.
At least we got a point out of the game last night.
What is more shocking then Nolan's line choices for OT is the lack of respect we continue to see from officials. Example 1A is the "tripping" call against Park at the end of the 2nd. It was clear during live action and replay that Park made a great defensive play and did not trip the Star player.
Copying our Model?
Not sure if any of you saw this...
http://tsn.ca/blogs/?id=223675
It looks like the Leafs are going to use a committee type upper management system similiar to the one Owner Charles Wang installed here on the island. Lets hope the media doesn't proclaim the Leafs as the first club to try a new model for success in the NHL as we got blasted for trying such a system. It not like our committee doesn't include some big names from the game with Snow, Trottier and Morrow all sitting in on the committee here on the Island.
Also we are now officially the lowest scoring team in the league averaging 2.42 goals a game.
I would really like to see some of the lines juggled around.
Bergs-Comrie-Guerin
Tank-Vasicek-Satan
Park-Sillinger-Hunter
Simon-Hilbert-Rotating W or Bates(until he proves he is ready for more minutes)
Hey- I'm not sure if you heard about the Tampa thing from another (more reliable) source, but as I've mentioned before, that has been the persistent rumor down here.
The Lightning have 21 million wrapped up in Richards (7.8), Vinnie (7.1), and St. Louie (6). The numbers don't represent the relative value of those players (Richards is NOT worth almost 8 million a year), and I'd argue St. Louie is somewhat high too- but worth it for the former NHL goal leader/Stanley cup champ. Either way, they have no one on defense, and a second tier goalie, and the media down here has been blaming their so-so record this year and last on the lack of depth. I would imagine any GM with any brains would be open to offers for any of those guys; Snow should be on the next plane down here to talk to the team. And bring pictures of Campoli.
I also agree about the penalties- still better than last year though.
The PP tonight was somehow less upsetting to me. They scored, obviously a good thing, but that was a 'perfect' play in the words of someone else. What I don't like is the amount of time it takes to get their passes off. PP goals are scored by getting the goalie out of position with quick passing, or with dirty plays in front of the net. We never have anyone in front of the net, and it bothers me every time I see Hunter on the halfboards cradling the puck for 4-5 seconds. By the time he passes, he's given away his target to the goalie, who has plenty of time to get in position. There needs to be more crisp passes.
I also thought the Isles played one of the best 1st periods I'd ever seen them play yesterday. They were in Dallas' zone most of the period, and had a number of really good chances, which likely would have been goals had it not been for Turco. I also noticed a huge difference in the style of play of Dallas, and for instance Boston. Boston always had 1-2 men pressuring our D on the breakout, which often led to dumps, bad passes, or turnovers. Dallas barely had a guy in our zone, and allowed the guys to skate unchallenged past our blue line (for the most part). Just an observation really, but it was interesting to see how much better the Isles played against that type of style.
Nyisles,
I completely agree with your PP analysis. That is the precise reason why the Isles have struggled on the PP and why they cannot concoct quality scoring chances when they have a 5-on-3.
Not only must you make quick crisp passes to throw the goalie off, but you also must do so to throw the defenseman off. Do you remember the goal against the Rags when Hunter one-timed a pass across the crease to Fedotenko (I think)? The Isles seem content cycling around the perimeter, moving the puck from point-man to point-man, while settling for low percentage shots.
The offense on this team needs to be upgraded NOW. This team is quite strong defensively, and with perhaps two gifted scorers we would sit among the elite in the East. I don't think Okposo should remain untouchable if it could land us the right player. Remember Okposo is still a prospect, and I would gladly part with him for an established scorer (I'm talking a 85-100 pt guy like Lecalviler or St. Louis).
Bill,
Sorry I strongly disagree about starting Hunter and Silinger. Forget that these are defensive minded forwards, playing 5-on-5 is DRASTICALLY different from playing 4-on-4 hockey. Nolan knows this and should have known not to leave his TWO SLOWEST forwards out there together to start the 4-on-4 sequence in OT.
The St. Louis rumor is interesting...He'd be a real asset.
I can't see why Tambs wouldn't be part of the package. He clearly has no future with this organization.
At least Nolan didn't have his pet Hilbert out on the 4 on 4:)
-Frank
Nonetheless, I'd rather have seen Hilbert out there than Hunter on the 4-4... Hilbert can actually skate, and playing with 4 other guys is clearly his biggest asset to the team. Not sure he would have stopped that Modano shot though...it was a good play by a great player.
Is it just me, or has there been a dearth of trading activity so far this season? Maybe I'm forgetting it's like this every year, or maybe with the flurry of activity in free agency now things have changed, but it's almost December, and there have been no big trades. There are plenty of teams in need, and plenty of teams who should give up on the season and rebuild. Even the tier 1 teams should consider stocking up for a long playoff run, and not wait till the trading deadline. I'd love to see the Isles pull off a blockbuster this season again, this time earlier to make a difference!
I guess its that old psychological & negotiation phenomena that is hold teams back from making moves...people are most motivated to act when there is a deadline, and become most risk tolerant when time becomes an issue.
Nyisles,
Again I agree. I would rather have seen Hilbert over either Hunter or Silinger. And what does that say about those guys? Dallas scored because they were able to keep the puck in the Isles' end for the entire first shift.
I also think there have been no trades b/c it's too early for teams to give up on the season. A mere 5-6 game winning streak would put any team right back in the thick of things.
Isles have not had a goal by a defenseman since none other than MAB scored eons ago. The Isles have scored 2 goals or less for 8 straight games...sad
Correction...9 games in a row!
That's 9 games in a row that the Isles have not scored more than 2 goals!!!!
We are 4-4-1 over that span which is quite extraordinary.
Everyone can disagree all they like, but Nolan made a sound decision to go with his best faceoff man and argueably his best defensive forward in the OT.
In reality, it was Modano who beat Martinek on the play. After the Isles scored, the Stars were buzzing in the Isles zone for the entire remainder of the period. Only DP's play kept them from losing in regulation. I am sure Nolan wanted to break that momentum by using what he considers his two best defensive forwards out there.
Did it work out the way he wanted? No, but it was sound hockey strategy and I can't find fault with him for that.
The best Power Play in the world was the old Red Army "slam dunk."
The puck is worked over to a player standing on the goal line. When the goalie has to hug the post, a short bullet pass is fired over to a second player who sneaks in behind the "D" and redirects the puck into the open net.
I have seen Satan do this several times and I wonder why the Isles don't employ this play more. The PK forwards have to stay high to respect MAB and Berdard, so that creates lots of room down low.
The Red Army team devasted the NHL with this play in the "Super Series" in the '70's. It is just as unstoppable today......Bill
Bill
On most nights I would agree with you but last night I do not. With the recent play of Hunter and Sillinger it is clear that both are not at the top of their respective games. This being said it is the coaches job to realize this and adjust his line combinations accordingly. This is why putting Hunter and Sillinger out on the ice in ot was foolish.
J, Well, we will just agree to disagree then.
Just to let you know, I sent a post on Logan's site last night and included a link to this site and he never published it. I guess he blocked it.
I have strayed away from there because of all the morons who post there. You can disagree here, but at least each side has a valid point and that point is respected.
Not the case in Logan's world.....Bill
Haha this is true Bill, but if we all agreed on everything that would be no fun.
That's pretty twisted that Logan wouldn't allow that to post. He usually let's me (Candyman) to drop the link whenever I try to. And especially now that the Newsday blog needs Logan's approval before any post appears that blog has become even more of a waste of time.
Also, I can follow Nolan's logic -- putting two of his better defensive minded forwards out there together -- but I don't necessarily think that logic was sound. Silinger is an old man and Hunter is the slowest player on the team, and this isn't a video game -- aka players don't automatically get juiced up to full strength just b/c there was a break between periods.
Silinger and Hunter went out there with the mindset to kill a penalty, and each stayed back in the Isles defensive zone while failing to clear the puck. While Martinek might have got beat on the play that Modano scored on, Hunter and Silinger were primarily responsible for allowing the Stars to maintain puck possession for the entire OT, however brief it was.
We can debate this endlessly, but clearing the front of the net is the defensemans job. Martinek got beat by Modano. Hey, Mike Modano is a world class player and the greatest American goal scorer of all time. It's no disgrace to get beat by him. It's happened over 500times before.
I keep reading that Hunter is the slowest skater on the team. Is he slower than Sillinger? Sutton?
Simon? I don't think so.
Hunter is not a smooth skater and he looks awkward as hell. But that doesn't neccessarily translate into
slow foot speed. He is also very quick to react and hits like a truck. Ask any player how solid you have to be on skates to hit someone that hard.
Hunter is also very sound in his positioning. That's what makes him such a good penalty killer.
I seem to recall that at the end of a close Pittsburgh game, Hunter was chasing Crosby all over the ice as the clock wound down. As I remember it, he stayed right with Crosby until time expired. If he was that slow, Crosby would have shook him easily. He didn't and the Isles won the game.....Bill
Fair enough it was a weird play that just bounced the Stars way--it seemed to go that way all night.
Ok so I exaggerated how slow Hunter is, but he is definitely slower than Silinger and he is definitely the slowest checking line forward around. But Bill you are right in that Hunter is sound defensively, knows the game, maintains strong positioning and can hit like a truck. And those are the reasons why he is in the NHL. But those are also the reasons why he should not have been paired with another slow footed player in 4 on 4 OT.
I believe the game you were referring to took place last season, where Hunter stuck with Crosby at the end of a game. That was a lot of stopping and turning and there was a lot of clutching and grabbing during a scramble in front. And again that is why Hunter should have been out there in that spot with the Penguins' goalie pulled creating a 6 on 5 advantage. With all those players (11), Hunter's speed was not as much of an issue. But it 4 on 4 with much more room and 3 less players, Hunter should not have been chosen to start the OT with Silinger.
And again you're right in that we could debate this forever. But I'm a law student and it's my nature. What's your excuse?
The game is obviously a lot different 4-4 then 5-5. With that much open ice you cannot have 2 slow forwards on the same line. I can understand someone justifying putting in Sillinger because of his face-off ability. (Even though he ended up losing the face-off) But, if you are going to center Sillinger put him with a faster winger then Hunter. In my opinion I don’t think either one of them should have been out there. Despite Sillingers face-off ability I wouldn’t even consider playing him 4-4 because he is way to slow. The only way I would even think of putting him in would be a very critical face-off in our zone or the opponent’s zone with little time remaining. You simply can’t have 2 forwards with little to no speed 4-4 against the opponent’s top line. They will get burned every time.
Actually Double G, we have the same two forwards out there all the time when it is 5 on 4 and that's worse. So your arguement doesn't hold much water. If they are good enough to kill penalties, they should be even better 4 on 4.
I am of the opinion that Nolan wanted to keep Modano in check and then come back with his offensive players. I think that if they had held Modano off the scoresheet, you would have seen Satan and Vasichecck followed by Comrie and Tank. I believe this was sound strategy by Ted and readers here know that I am no shill for Nolan.
I find this thread very entertaining. Who would you have put out there in Hunters place? Or would you have switched Sillinger?
Would you have used Park and Hilbert? Who then?
JUSTIN, Beside being normally arguementtive, let's just say you would have had me on the stand, especially in homicide cases. I'll leave it at that....Bill
Bill,
One guy who could have filled in for Hunter nicely is the one player you didn't mention in OT. Yes is a former shell of himself but don't you think our captain Billy Guerin should see some ice time in ot?
J....Yes, Guerin could have been substituted for Tank with Comrie.
I don't, however, think he should have played over Hunter. Guerin has never been known for his defense.
Didn't Guerin score in OT against the Devils this year? So, Nolan must have used him. I don't remember who he was on the ice with but I am thinking it was Comrie.....Bill
Bill,
I almost always agree with you,but not in this situation. When you only have 5 minutes in over time its important to send out your two best forwards first .You don’t send out players hoping your opponent wont score so you can send out your goal scores next.
Geoff
I would have started Vasicek and Satan. They lead the team in +/- and would have given the Isles a great chance to score. Hunter, on the other hand, has the worst +/- on the team with a -8. So much for his sound defensive game. ;->
Double G, So then you advocate "strength on strength" without regard to line matchups.I can see both points of view on this. However, I understand what Nolan was trying to do.
No one has answered my point about using Silinger and Hunetr 5 on 4. Therefore 4 on 4 should be fine.
Satan and Vasicheck would never play against the Modano line because they are not that good defensivly.
Hunter may be -8 but that is because he plays against the other teams top line every night and he is stuck with Sillinger and Hilbert who NEVER score. It is hard to break into the plus column where your linemates have 1 and 2 goals all season. Doesn't leave you much room for error...Bill
And that's that. In other news, the Isles are looking to defeat a tough Sens team that loses to the Isles once every 5 years or so. However, with a whole new team this year, perhaps the Isles can change that up. And it will definitely take more than two goals tonight to meet that challenge.
Guerin needs to start scoring.
The defense needs to start scoring.
The PP needs to start scoring.
DP needs to start scoring.
Ok sorry I was on a roll.
Yes I do. You definitely have to send out your best players first. You go for the win. I would almost guarantee every coach at any level of hockey would send out their 4 best players to start OT. (top 2 D and top 2 forwards) Answering your question about playing Hunter and Sillinger 5-4 vs. 4-4.It is much different 4-4 then 5-4. With 5-4 on the penalty kill you are in your own zone for pretty much the entire time with the objective of just killing a power play. With 4-4 you are at even strength and are trying to score a goal to win the game. Sending out Hunter and Sillinger 4-4 gives you very little opportunity to score. It is basically is praying that the other team doesn’t score so you can have a chance to win the game on the next shift. With only 5 minutes you send out your best players first and try to win the second point. There simply isn’t enough time to be hoping to stop the opponent’s top line for you to get on yours. Modano is a –7 so it isn’t like teams haven’t been scoring when his line is on the ice. I agree with you about Hunter. His –8 definitely is mostly because of his line mates lack of ability to score goals. I like Hunter a lot but he overachieved last year and is a second line center maybe even third line on a great team.
I'm with Bill when he mentions Nolan was trying counter their strength with good D, but I have a few points/problems with Nolan's decision.
1) This was an OT game against a different conference- there was nothing to lose by putting your best forwards/puck movers out there. We lost anyway with our supposed strong defensive forwards out there (hindsight 20/20 of course), so why not give us a shot at moving the puck and scoring 4on4 with our top offensive players? Since Nolan had the chance to set his lines AFTER Dallas (home team), this was clearly his decision- in my opinion a bad decision. He should have put V-cek, Tank, or Comrie out there to give us a shot to move the puck quickly and finish. Worst case result is what happened.
2) If I'm Nolan, and I saw Modano & crew out on the ice at the start of OT, and I decided to counter with strong D, why not Park? He had a shortie already (almost 2), and has been on a tear on the PK. I'd also make an argument for Hilbert- fast, shot blocker, and smart defensively. I can see Sillinger as the faceoff man to play puck possesion (though 56 percent faceoff win % is essentially chance, and almost anyone else would have had the same luck...another story for another time though), but Hunter is a baffling choice for me. If you're playing 4-4 and want strong D, why not put the guys out there who have been doing well when playing with 4 men on the ice? Those are Park & Hilbert's strengths, so get them out there.
Looking forward to tonight... I expect it to be rocking. I better get my work done so I can watch in real-time! If the Isles come out flying like they did against Dallas in the 1st period, and DP is on again, we stand a good chance. Alfredsson is just coming back from injury, so hopefully he's a bit rusty, and HOPEFULLY we'll roll 4 lines tonight with Bates back. If the 4th line is strong defensively, it should allow Nolan to get our top line out there at more opportune times to create mis-matches, and they should hopefully have the energy to crash the net hard. No more rolling 3 lines all game...that won't work against such a skilled & speedy team.
Nyisles82, Great point I agree with you 100 percent. Nolan should have gone with Comrie, Satan, Tank or Vasicek. Certainly not Sillinger and Hunter. A win tonight would be awesome, however I think we are going to be overmatched. Heatley Alfredsson, Spezza are simply too much talent for us. We don’t have the offense to contour that line. I hope I am wrong but I think we are going to loose badly tonight by at least 2 goals. Our only chance is if Gerber has another bad game and Alfredsson is extremely rusty. Even with that Ottawa is so dominate. This game is going to be extremely hard to win unless we can start to put the biscuit in the basket.
Always so pessimistic GG.
Just you wait till the Isles come out flying tonight. The Isles should be pumped b/c a strong showing tonight could show the rest of the league that the Isles are seriously turning a corner this season.
DOUBLE G, A shift is only 45-50 seconds. That gives the offensive minded players 4 minutes to score. That's plenty of time to go for the win.
Nolan was just countering Modano and hoping to neutralize him and then bring out the shooters.
In effect Nolan was looking to kill Modano's shfit. Exactly like killing a penalty. And I disagree that most coaches would not do this.
Also brushed aside here is the fact that it was Martinek who got beat, not Hunter or Sillinger.
If it were the Devils, then you would have seen Madden and Pandolfo
against Modano. And then Gionta and Zajac.
Also, Tom Renny would never start Jagr against Modano. He would play Betts and have Jagr on the next shift.
I can understand if Park was substutied for Hunter. But Hilbert?
If you say you are going for the win, what are the odds that Hilbert is going to score. So far it's one in twenty.
I keep seeing a 6-2 score in my head for tonight. Hopefully, it's Ottawa with the 2.....Bill
I just read on TSN that Sean Avery had wrist surgery today and will be out for a few weeks. I won't miss him.
Of more concern is Straka, who will play Thursday and always kills the Islanders.
These next two games will say a lot about this team....Bill
What's the over-under on Bates pulling a groin tonight?
What a game!
I'll go back to what I said a few days ago- the Isles can play with anyone if they stick to their game. When the high powered offense of Ottawa can't get going, you know something is going right. The Isles completely neutralized that first line, and had it not been for lucky* goals by the Sens, it would have been over.
*isles goals were probably considered lucky by sens fans...
The Isles goals came from scrubby plays, which is the only way they're gonna score.
They need to hit the net way more than they do- its tough to watch!
Hilbert plays the forecheck in Nolan's system very very well. Watching him in comparison to Satan is night and day. I'll take that effort- he singlehandedly kept Ottawa in their zone for 30-40 seconds during the second- he's like a little yappy dog that never leaves your side, and tangles the leash so you trip.
Once again the refs had a great time impacting the outcome of the game. How does Simon get that penalty at the end of the 2nd? Is that just because of his history? 3rd man in shouldn't apply when everyone else on the ice is also in there. There were calls and non-calls today that made me sick to watch. We're lucky it turned out ok...
Lets give DP a 30 year extension!
Looking ahead to December, we have a relatively "easy" schedule, compared with November. Not to jinx anything, but we have a number of games against the Thrashers, Pens, Coyotes, & Caps. Tough games against the Bs, Sens, and Sabres, but this could be a great xmas month!
Excellent game tonight. Even though it was a low scoring affair, the chances were there. DP played a wonderful game. He is really starting to look like a bargain at 4.5 million.
I thought Hilbert had he best game of the season. He played very well.
Simon took a stupid penalty that led directly to a Sens goal. I do think that it was a questionable call, however. I didn't think he deserved it.
Great goal by Vasicheck batting the puck out of mid air. He has been the best signing of the off season. Lots has been written about Snow signing Tank to a long term deal. He should give Big Joe the same consideration.
Nice to see Guerin come up big. He had several good chances tonight and sooner or later those will start going in.
The much maligned Hunter-Sillinger combo did a bang up job on the Sens top line.
MAB had another strong game. Hopefully, Ted sticks with him tomorrow. Berard can use another night off.
From the view on FSN, it didn't look like much of a crowd tonight. It's a shame that such a well played game had such a sparse crowd.
At the beginning of the week I would have been hapy to get 3 points out of this weeks 4 games. Now 5 would be good and 7 even better......Bill
Hey I hear Bergie was on crutches after the game- anyone hear anymore? ?
If so, would you guys like to see 7 Dmen or call up Walter/Jackman/Tamby tonight? I'm not sure- I also was impressed with MAB last night, and Berard looks like he's off his game a bit.
I think a lot of last night's success had to do with rolling 4 defensively effective lines. It left everyone with more gas in the tank for the entire game (and for tonight!), and really created match-up problems for the vaunted offense of the Sens. If Bergie is out tonight for whatever reason, I'd still like to see 4 lines get minutes tonight. Walter would be my pick for the 4th, as many of you I'm sure would agree with, as he showed no indications of being defensively irresponsible. He would also be a good fit w/ Bates on the 4th line.
If Avery really is out (is that for sure yet?), we need less 'fists', so lets leave Jackman back in B-port, and bring up 'hands & grit & defense' in Walter.
I think I've revised my thoughts on Simon- he's a keeper this year. His presence, despite that penalty, is huge. I think playing on the 4th line allows him to play his game more effectively. If the other team knows he's gonna be out there often without being expected to score/assist, and that he's getting minutes against their top lines, that is a scary thought for them. I can only imagine what it must look like to see that mug coming at you in the corner- my drawers would be full.
BD corrected himself, it was not Bergenheim on crutches, probably Johnson.
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